Race/Ethnicity
Questions 451-460
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THE
QUESTION:
R460: It seems to me that having minority organizations or
minority subcommittees of "mainstream" organizations only further
points out our differences. How can we accept others and not label
them if they are already labeling themselves?
POSTED SEPT. 19, 1998
Stacy W., white female, Akron, OH
ANSWER 1:
In a democracy, the majority is supposed to rule. However,
there can be strength in unity for minority groups. Because our
nation is historically notorious for its exclusionary practices
toward people who have not been the "right" color, ethnicity or
religion, such unity is often necessary for survival, if not for
success. Remember that attempts by members of such groups to join the
"mainstream" have historically been met with indifference, contempt
and often violence. This treatment has created a climate where such a
clan mentality has become the rule of the day. To use a contemporary
figure of speech, when you see a group "playing the race card," you
must consider that they would have no need or ability to play that
card had it not already been placed in the deck. Unless all of us -
including the "dealer," - recognize that, we are doomed to becoming a
nation of ever smaller splinters.
POSTED OCT. 5, 1998
Sam; 30; male; brown American
<SamAlex67@aol.com>,
Chicago, Il
FURTHER NOTICE:
Don't blame the "minorities." They were labeled not by
themselves but by the "mainstream" in order to differentiate the
"minority" from the mainstream. Many, many longstanding minority
organizations grew out of a history of minorities being excluded
from, or denied, full and effective participation in mainstream
organizations. Many minority "subcommittees" are created to counter
the indifference, marginalization and sometimes outright illegalities
suffered in "mainstream" organizations. To ask minorities thusly
treated to then give up aspiring to those things taken for granted by
the mainstream is tantamount to saying minorities are not deserving.
To deny our diversity is to deny reality and the many riches that
diversity brings. The problem arises not from recognizing the
differences, but from abusing and mistreating each other because of
these differences.
POSTED OCT. 7, 1998
F.L.W., black male
<110555.2423@compuserve.com>,
Columbia, Md
FURTHER NOTICE 2:
I feel minority organizations are a "divine" equalizer
toward the substandard disposition of minorities in the United
States. I also believe if these organizations did not exist,
minorities' rights would decline rather than advance, because white
racists would be free to practice racism with no restrictions, and
non-racist whites would not be free to practice equity (because of
pressure from white racists to "conform"). This is the plight of the
non-racist white: Not only do they have to deal with minorities who
think they are racist, but they also have to fight off their racist
contemporaries trying to "convert" them.
POSTED NOV. 9, 1998
Alonzo C., 32, African American, Jacksonville, FL
To respond
BACK TO TOP
THE QUESTION:
R459: Why do some light-skinned black people discriminate
against dark-skinned black people?
POSTED SEPT. 19, 1998
Whitney T., 18, dark-skinned black female
<wkthomps@olemiss.edu>,
Oxford, MS
ANSWER 1:
Oops! The questioner just aired some very dirty
linen about us black folks. Although the problem is not as bad as it
once was, there does exist a tradition of racism among blacks based
on skin color. Why this occurs I will leave to a sociologist to
answer. However, it is good to keep this in mind when I begin feeling
too self-righteous regarding the racial transgressions committed by
my white brothers.
POSTED SEPT. 25, 1998
S. Finley, male, African American
<sfinley@earthlink.net>,
Naperville, IL
FURTHER NOTICE:
Unfortunately, we as African Americans are guilty of that,
but I don't think it's just discrimination on the part of our
lighter-skinned brothers and sisters. It goes both ways. In my
experience, it seems that sometimes it has to do with lighter-skinned
blacks thinking that the closer you are to being white, the better
you are, or with darker-skinned blacks taking the view that if you're
light-skinned, you're too close to being white. All in all, I think
we sometimes lose sight of the beauty of black people. We come in so
many lovely shades that there is no reason to divide ourselves over
the shades we happen to be.
POSTED OCT. 14, 1998
Toni H, black female, 24, Houston, TX
To respond
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THE QUESTION:
R458: I live in a university area and regularly see young,
black male students who are branded as part of their fraternity
initiations. I often wonder about the origins and symbolism of the
branding ritual, as well as how, 130-plus years after slavery, these
organizations perceive it as positive to subject their members to
branding.
POSTED SEPT. 14, 1998
Tim Q., 39, white, Cincinnati , OH
ANSWER 1:
I am a black male who got a brand 25 years ago. Cult
symbolism can sometimes overtake rational reasoning. One could also
ask: Why do millions of whites tattoo their bodies with various
symbols?
POSTED SEPT. 23, 1998
Prez, 44, black male
<ANABWI@aol.com>,
Plantation, FL
FURTHER NOTICE:
In many cultures (such as my own), branding or
"scarification" is a tradition affiliated with representing one's
warrior status. You might be interested to look up some of the
symbolic Fijian designs. It's become as commercial as Mendi (henna
tattooing) or tattooing, which has cultural significance, also.
POSTED DEC. 30, 1998
Taneia, 25, mixed ethnicity
<taneia@sprint.ca>,
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
To respond
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THE QUESTION:
R457: Are young Asian Americans intent on assimilating into
white culture? I rarely see young Asian Americans overtly celebrating
their heritage the way African Americans, the Irish, Mexicans, Poles,
etc. , do. Also, I see more Asian/white couples than I do Asian/Asian
couples. Am I wrong, or are Asians quietly assimilating into white
culture?
POSTED SEPT. 11, 1998
K. Green, black male
<KennyG9@yahoo.com>,
Chicago, IL
ANSWER 1:
It's interesting that posting R456 gives the completely
opposite opinion. I think it depends on where Asian Americans grew
up. In areas with large Asian populations, such as Los Angeles or New
York City, there tends to be a more tight-knit community with a
stronger sense of ethnic identity. The same principle holds true for
old Irish American or Jewish American communities in Boston or New
York. Along these lines, a major issue in the Jewish community is the
rapidly declining sense of ethnic identity and the high rate of
out-marriage (marrying gentiles). As Jews move away from
traditionally Jewish centers like New York, and as they are
increasingly accepted as full members of the American mainstream (a
la Seinfeld and the decline in overt anti-Semitism), the out-marriage
phenomenon will undoubtably increase. A similar situation exists for
Asian Americans who perhaps grew up in areas with few Asians and were
socialized in white mainstream society.
POSTED OCT. 5, 1998
Ray, 24, Asian American
<yangban@erols.com>,
Washington, DC
FURTHER NOTICE:
I am a Japanese person living in the United States
(non-citizen, resident alien). I have a potential theory about your
observation. Asians (at least from my point of view) actually tend to
stick together as a community very well, due to our sense of
commitment and loyalty to the larger "family" around us. I think that
is a part of the reason you see China-towns, Japanese-towns and other
Asian-concentrated sections in cities around the world. When you step
into this community, you will see lots of Asians hanging out
together. However, these Asians who live in a tight-knit community
among themselves tend to be shy about venturing into the rest of the
world individually. Individuality is not as strongly emphasized in
Asian cultures. So my theory is that the Asians you see are more
exceptions than the norm of Asians who live outside Asia.
POSTED OCT. 7, 1998
Japanese <ari@tkp.com>,
Austin, TX
FURTHER NOTICE 2:
I think the issue is more complicated than Asian Americans
being "intent" on assimilating. In my experience there are some
Asians who are so tradition-oriented that they are very intent on
retaining a strong sense of Asian culture and self-described "values"
without necessarily any real regard to assimilation per se. This is
especially true of many (though certainly not all) first-generation
immigrants. Many of these Asians live in "Asiatowns," but there are
some in the "whiter" suburbs as well. Then there are other
first-generation immigrants and families who for some reason develop
an almost classist and sometimes quasi-racist mentality when they are
or become very successful and often try almost too hard to be "liked"
by or impress whites, while still trying to cling to a notion of
conservative Asian values. This is why you see such ultra-rich and
otherwise "white" suburbs like Oak Brook, Ill., attracting many
high-achieving Asians (Oak Brook's Asian population is around 20
percent). Most Asians, however, lead fairly "average" lives without
too many extremes, though I must say the Asian community in my
opinion has a lot of work to do on the race relations front,
especially with other non-whites. Also keep in mind most Asians (with
obvious exceptions like Vietnamese refugees) already came to the
United States as middle-to-upper class folks, so their experience is
on average very different from African Americans and Hispanics.
POSTED NOV. 23, 1998
Mihir, Indian, male, 25
<mishah@vt.edu>, Skokie,
IL
To respond
BACK TO TOP
THE QUESTION:
R456: I have noticed that a lot of Asians do not seem to date
people of other races. Is this some sort of cultural "rule" or
somehting?
POSTED SEPT. 11, 1998
Karen P., 31, white female, Denver, CO
ANSWER 1:
Asian immigrants, like other immigrants, obviously feel
more comfortable with people who share the same native language and
culture as they do. American ex-pats in other countries tend to find
each other as well. Asian Americans, depending on their environment
and socialization, could go either way.
POSTED OCT. 5, 1998
Ray, 24, Asian American
<yangban@erols.com>,
Washington , DC
To respond
BACK TO TOP
THE QUESTION:
R455: To Japanese Americans: How do you feel about the fact
that the U.S. media has spent so much time discussing the Holocaust
but has mostly ignored discussion of the Japanese-American internment
camps in operation in the United States during the same time?
POSTED SEPT. 10, 1998
Laura W., 37, Jewish female,
<lauraw@cobalt.cnchost.com>,
Los Angeles, CA
ANSWER 1:
Wow, someone cares. I'm not Japanese American, but I feel
strong empathy for what happened to them during World War II. I
recall seeing a posting on a newsgroup once from a guy who wanted to
know why the U.S. government was compensating Japanese when "the
Japanese government didn't compensate American POWs." How incredibly
ignorant. That's why I admire men like U.S. Sen. Daniel Inouye, who
volunteered to fight for his country right out of the internment
camps, even though the rest of America considered him a "Jap" and
incarcerated his family.
POSTED OCT. 5, 1998
Ray, 24, Asian American
<yangban@erols.com>,
Washington , DC
FURTHER NOTICE:
Thank you for asking. As a Japanese person living in the
United States, I do think about the issues surrounding World War II
quite a bit. What does bother me is that while Americans seem to
remember Pearl Harbor and bring it up every year, they seem to have
forgotten two atomic bombs they dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I
don't want to justify what my countrymen did at Pearl Harbor, but
what happened there doesn't even compare to the genocide that
occurred in those two cities, as well as what happened in the Tokyo
and Osaka area from massive bombing. Many, many more people died in
much more painful, cruel ways in Japan from those bombings. On the
other hand, Japanese history books don't address even a tiny bit of
the massacre, rape and genocide that we did in greater Asia up until
World War II. We basically enslaved and robbed Korea, China,
Mongolia, Thailand, Taiwan, the Philippines, Vietnam and other Asian
countries that Japan occupied. This bothers me as well. I hope this
sheds light on your question about the camps for the Japanese in
United States during that war. It bothers me that both sides of the
issue are not addressed, but we Japanese are as guilty as
Americans.
POSTED OCT. 7, 1998
Japanese <ari@tkp.com>,
Austin, TX
FURTHER NOTICE 2:
I am the Archivist for the Japanese Canadian National
Museum and Archives in Vancouver, B.C. The Japanese in Canada faced
the same discrimination during World War II as Japanese Americans. In
dealing with the Japanese in Canada, there seems to be a pervasive
attitude that although they acknowledge the horrors of Canada's
recent history, there is an attitude of "letting the past go and
moving on." A very positive attitude, although often viewed with a
sense of denial of the past injustices forced upon them. While the
principles of segregating and confining Japanese during the time were
similar to the European Jewish experience, Japanese Canadians weren't
slaughtered, a tremendous difference. However, in relative terms, the
Japanese lost their property and dignity, and many were forced to
denounce their Canadian citizenship or move to Japan, a place many
had never been to or could not entirely relate to. It is vitally
important to never take the rights and freedoms we currently cherish
for granted.
POSTED OCT. 7, 1998
S. Foster, archivist (bi-racial)
<jcnmas@bc.sympatico.ca>,
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
FURTHER NOTICE 3:
What we did to Japanese Americans in World War II was bad,
but to me it is an outrage to compare it to the Holocaust, where more
than six million defenseless Jews were murdered.
POSTED OCT. 8, 1998
Al, Jew, 66
<maydec1@mailexcite.com>,
Fort Pierce, FL
FURTHER NOTICE 4:
Six million people were gazed and burned by the Nazis
during World War II. How many Japanese Americans were? How can you
(Jewish) compare a racial slaughter with a security (even if unfair)
matter?
POSTED OCT. 8, 1998
FDON, 60, French republican
<fdondon@minitel.net>,
Paris, France
FURTHER NOTICE 5:
My neighbors, who are Japanese Americans and close
friends, were interned in Utah during World War II. While there is
lingering bitterness, both of them (they're a married couple) have
never complained, at least not about getting enough "attention"
vis-a-vis the Holocaust. Perhaps it's that I've lived among more or
less progressive and forward-thinking people (and I live in a suburb
with a high Jewish and Asian population), but most people I know have
knowledge about both the horrible internment of Japanese Americans
and the Holocaust. And most of them know to put each terrible event
in their appropriate perspective. It is useless if not
counter-productive to "compare" the two events, since I think
one-upsmanship of victimization is very corrosive and only divides
and polarizes people. The key is to educate people about the history
of Japanese internment and the Holocaust on their own merits. There
is a lot to learn from both events, but it is a very wrong thing to
have the two "compete" against each other.
POSTED NOV. 23, 1998
Mihir, Indian, male, 25
<mishah@vt.edu>, Skokie,
IL
To respond
BACK TO TOP
THE QUESTION:
R454: I, as most people are, am aware of the struggles
African-American people went through in slavery and even when they
were freed and struggled for the same rights as white people. But it
does not seem society knows or cares about the troubles Irish people
encountered. They were forced into "white slavery" and to this day
have religious wars. Is this information generally considered less
important than the struggles of African Americans?
POSTED SEPT. 10, 1998
Regina W., Irish white female
<reginak@clt-online.com>,
Charlotte, NC
ANSWER 1:
From my experience, I have rarely seen/heard anyone make
degrading remarks about Irish people. Also, there are still obvious
feelings of discontent between whites and blacks today. Even though
Irish and African Americans have had similar pasts, it seems as
though many people simply can't get past the color issue.
POSTED SEPT. 22, 1998
White
<eric.crabbendam@fmr.com>,
Charlotte, NC
FURTHER NOTICE:
I think it is much easier to find racists against black
people than it is to find racists against the Catholic Irish, though
it would depend largely on which state or country you were in. In
Northern Ireland and Scotland, there are very few black people, and
so the issue of Catholic Irish vs. Protestant whites is much more in
the news and in people's everyday lives. I have never experienced
much anti-Irish feeling in the North of the United States, but then I
have usually visited relatives and friends of an Irish background.
However, some racists like members of the KKK are against both black
people and Irish Catholics. It makes me aware that although our skin
colour is the same, many of us have distinctive facial features that
could only have come from one island!
POSTED SEPT. 29, 1998
Clare, Irish female, Belfast, Ireland
FURTHER NOTICE 2:
I am of African/Native American/Irish descent and am aware
of the place afforded to early Irish peoples in this country. I know
they were enslaved like blacks (but in far fewer numbers) and that
our history books ignore that fact. However, I have always felt that
the various white ethnic groups who were ill-received here at first
had an advantage over blacks, that being the color of their skin. I
have known Irish and Italian families who ended their problems with
bigotry by simply moving to a place where they were not known and
changing their surnames. And even when the ethnicity is known, a
white face from any background is virtually assured a better
reception than a black one.
POSTED OCT. 7, 1998
Dorsey
<starsi@iname.com>,
Meadville, PA
FURTHER NOTICE 3:
As an Irish-American woman with an African-American
partner, this is a question I've been batting around for years.
Although I know from family stories the sufferings of the Irish
people, I feel that sometimes my Irish-American friends use that past
suffering as an excuse to avoid admitting our present culpability in
white privilege, i.e. "our folks suffered just as much as yours, we
are equal victims, so we are not racist"; or "we got over it; why
can't those black folks get over it?" I'm sure that is not your
attitude, but sometimes I find myself showing less sympathy for the
plight of my Irish-American brothers and sisters because in the here
and now, at least in the United States, we are not an oppressed
group, and looking back to our past sufferings does little to advance
equality. I found Ignatiev's How the Irish Became White very
enlightening on this whole issue.
POSTED OCT. 7, 1998
L.K., 39, white
<lktice@peganet.com>,
Fort Myers, FL
FURTHER NOTICE 4:
As a black female I will be the first to tell you that we
really don't care. What your people endured was nowhere near the
extent of what our people endured, and therefore I feel that the two
cannot be compared. Also, when people look at you now, they see
another white person. When they look at me, they see that I am black,
and I am often discriminated against. These are things you won't
encounter because it is hard to tell the Polish from the Irish, etc.
They're all white.
POSTED OCT. 7, 1998
Taylor M., black female, U.S.
FURTHER NOTICE 4:
I don't think Taylor should be so passive. Hate is hate.
It doesn't matter if one got it worse than another. The point is it
shouldn't happen to anybody and these things should not go
unnoticed.
POSTED OCT. 14, 1998
J. Bennett, Jacksonville, FL
To respond
BACK TO TOP
THE QUESTION:
R453: Is there a way to tell the difference in Asian
nationalities? I've heard that the slant direction of the eyes is an
indicator. Is this true?
POSTED SEPT. 9, 1998
Tina, Columbia, SC
ANSWER 1:
As an Asian, I find few physical characteristics to
differentiate between different nationalities. The slant of the eyes
is usually irrelevant in determining nationality. I usually have to
go by the total context of the situation in trying to guess an
Asian's nationality. Younger Chinese (from Hong Kong and Taiwan),
Japanese and Koreans seemed to have assimiliated into the middle to
upper-middle class here in the Midwest. So many times if I see a
well-to-do Asian, I will narrow it down to one of those three.
Filipino, Thai, Vietnamese and mainland Chinese, having immigrated
here more recently, may not have the same degree of assimilation yet.
I have noticed that some Filipinos, Thai and Vietnamese have darker
skin, but there are exceptions. I can usually identify other
Japanese, but I find Koreans and Japanese are very similar in
appearance. I usually end up looking at things like behavior, the
contextual situation, body language, the language they are speaking,
etc., to try to make an educated guess. If I'm correct 50 percent of
the time, I feel I'm doing pretty well.
POSTED SEPT. 23, 1998
Keach, 39, Japanese-American male
<keachs@idt.net>, Chicago,
IL
FURTHER NOTICE:
I agree with Keach. Context is totally important, but it
usually holds more with Asians from Asia. As an Asian American, I
find it extremely hard to distinguish the ethnicities of other Asian
Americans, to the point where I don't even bother with it.
POSTED OCT. 5, 1998
Ray, 24, Asian American
<yangban@erols.com>,
Washington , DC
FURTHER NOTICE 2:
I would echo the first comment about the "context," but in
a slightly different way. I think it's easier when you are "inside" a
community (i.e.: being Asian) to be able to differentiate between the
various "internal" nationalities and regionalities. For example, my
parents are from India, and I can often (though not always) "guess"
whether a person of Indian descent is from the North or South, or
perhaps from a more specific region. What's important (at least from
my perspective) is that often there isn't a single distinguishing
feature but a sort of "gestalt" whereby the totality of someone's
appearance tips off or at least suggests where they are specifically
from. It's also very important for those on the "outside" of the
group to not jump to conclusions (even I'm wrong about where an Asian
or Indian is from) about one's specific origin, and certainly never
have the mentality "they all look alike," because that blends the
other group into one monolithic identity rather than looking at
people as individuals.
POSTED NOV. 23, 1998
Mihir, Indian, male, 25
<mishah@vt.edu>, Skokie,
IL
To respond
BACK TO TOP
THE QUESTION:
R452: Being Native American, I can understand the hardships
and trauma African Americans have suffered while their rights were
being questioned. Many of them lost several generations to poor
working conditions, disease and beatings. I often wonder: Do African
Americans support Indians in their continued fight for freedom in
this country? And do African Americans support Indians' rights to
sovereignty and the right to own and operate casinos for income to
better their economic status?
POSTED SEPT. 9, 1998
Quincy S. 3, Luiseno female
<Quincees@aol.com>, San
Diego, CA
ANSWER 1:
I am an African American and totally support Indians'
rights to sovereignty over their land. This entire country was
theirs, and it was stolen from them, even though they were more than
willing to share it. And they have many signed (and broken) treaties
to show their willingness to share this land. So for the little bit
of land they now have, it should be totally theirs. They should have
the ability to operate any kind of business that does not adversely
affect our shared ecology. We should not be adversely affecting the
shared ecology,either. They should have sovereignty, and they should
be able to open or not open as many casinos as their people see
fit.
POSTED SEPT. 10, 1998
S.D., 23, black American, Oakland, CA
FURTHER NOTICE:
One thing that is interesting is that libertarians, who
are mostly white (hopefully this will change), are very much in favor
of re-opening treaty negotiations with Native Americans and are quite
willing to negotiate anything up to and including full sovereignty on
Native American lands. Comedian Drew Carey, a libertarian, supports
this view as well (which is somewhat ironic, since as a Cleveland
Indians fan, he doesn't have a "problem" with the offensive "Chief
Wahoo" logo). My point is that there are folks (including myself) of
various ethnic backgrounds who are sympathetic to the plight of
Native Americans and want to do the right thing. Unfortunately, there
are still far too few Americans willing to do something as "radical"
or "drastic" as returning Native American lands to their rightful
owners.
POSTED NOV. 23, 1998
Mihir, Indian, male, 25
<mishah@vt.edu>, Skokie,
IL
To respond
BACK TO TOP
THE QUESTION:
R451: In Northern Minnesota, there seems to be quite a
prejudice against Native Americans. Recently I heard an Indian refer
to himself as "a drunken Indian" during a TV broadcast. He had been
commenting on how he believed white people viewed him. Do other
American Indians feel this way? Or do Indians actually view
themselves as drunkards?
POSTED SEPT. 7, 1998
M.T., Bemidji, MN
ANSWER 1:
I'm a (brown) Afro American and used to travel to
Minnesota on business. Once, I was threatened by a group of whites
who mistook me for a Native American. After learning I was an Afro
American from Chicago, everything was OK Also, when I was Hawaii, I
noticed that many whites expressed extreme racism toward the native
Hawaiian population. I relate this to confirm your suspicion of the
existence of prejudice in Minnesota toward Native Americans. More
importantly, I relate this because it seems to say a lot about the
nature of racism in America: It appears that any group that shares
space with the majority, white, population in America becomes the
object of prejudice. If you travel to the South, blacks are described
as lazy, drunken, etc. If there are few blacks around, then Native
Americans, Hispanics, Hawaiians, Asians or (fill in the blank) become
lazy, drunken, etc. Why this is is perhaps the subject of another
question.
POSTED SEPT. 9, 1998
S.F., black male,
<sfinley@earthlink.net>,
Naperville, IL
FURTHER NOTICE:
I was raised near the Cherokee reservation in North
Carolina, and I can tell you this is still a strongly held stereotype
by many white people. I remember many incidents where Native
Cherokees would not be hired for construction jobs in the area
because "you never know when they'll show up drunk." Those same
foremen would hire Anglos who would show up hung over, sneak in
alcohol on the job, drink during lunch and brag about how drunk they
got the night before. I find this funny in the extreme since
"Tar-Heels" are known for their history of black-market alcohol and
moonshine factories. It is my experience that Americans who are a
part of a minority have to work twice as hard, be three times as
proficient and four times as tolerant just to be viewed half as
normal as those who wish to be hateful towards them. I'm not just
talking white-on-black, white-on-Jewish or white-on-Indian hate. This
behavior has extended to every culture in our country and every
culture that is "different" from the discriminating person. We have
learned our bigotry well.
POSTED SEPT. 9, 1998
45-year-old white lesbian,
<pridewks@centraltx.net>,
Kempner, TX
FURTHER NOTICE:
American Indians keep questioning why white people have
taken their places and feeling bad about it. The fact is Indians
can't go back to old times. What can they do? Work hard, use the
right of public speech to protect them from abuse while trying to
progress, and get to know how to use modern machinery to compete in
an open market. I think Indians in North America have better
opportunities than the ones in South America, who aer impoverished
with hunger and overwork, but it is the South American Indians who
could teach lessons to them.
POSTED MARCH 23, 1999
Agustin R.
<fran31@hotmail.com>,
Santa Cruz, Bolivia
To respond
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